Introduction

Do you find it easy to forgive people? What is forgiveness and why is it so hard? What do religions say about forgiveness? In this new Discussions episode from English Plus Podcast, we will discuss all these questions and more.

Audio Episode

Discussions – On Forgiveness | Episode Transcript

Introduction

Danny: When was the last time you forgave someone? When was the last time you forgot about it? How did that make you feel? Did you offend someone and kept apologizing and wished that person would just forgive you for what you have done? Well, this is but a taste of the many discussion questions we’re going to raise in today’s discussion episode from English Plus Podcast. Today’s topic is forgiveness. I will not try to be ideal about it and start patronizing you, but I will try to be as realistic as possible because after all, we are all just human, we can be as strong or weak, as right or wrong, as forgiving or vengeful as it gets. I’ll have my good friend, Ben to share some thoughts and questions with, and hopefully by the end of this episode, we will have left you enough food for thought, and of course because we are English Plus Podcast, I also hope that this episode will help you become more fluent talking about forgiveness, which may be one of the key things we need to talk about in these difficult times in order to have a chance at a better future. This is your host Danny, and this is English Plus Podcast.

To Forgive or Not Forgive?

Danny: Welcome again to the show Ben.

Ben: Thank you Danny. Glad to be here.

Danny: So, last time we talked about kindness, and this time, we’re not straying far from that, we’re going to talk about forgiveness. I may start with a very simple question, but it’s not that easy a nut to crack. My very first question is what is forgiveness, how would you define forgiveness?

Ben: Well, for me to forgive is to forget, I mean, it’s not enough just to forgive someone if you can’t forget about their offense and it is something that keeps you awake at night or something like that. To me, you can’t forgive if you won’t forget, so they should always come together, but of course, I do understand that it is easier said than done.

Danny: I agree. So maybe, we should kick this episode off by some examples of things you may forgive and things you can’t forgive. I will present you with some situations, or some offenses people might do to you, and then you will decide if you can forgive them or not, and if you have personal experience in any of them, I’d appreciate it if you told us how you behaved in real life giving us as many details as you’d like.

Ben: Sure.

Danny: All right, so let me start with the first situation. A colleague at work used some of the information you divulged in front of them to their own advantage knowing that this might hurt you as the information is kind of confidential.

Ben: Well, I believe this must have happened to everyone, and it surely happened to me many times, especially when I was younger. And in my opinion, there’s nothing to forgive here. It’s not his or her mistake; you should forgive yourself for doing that foolish thing. When something is confidential, you should learn not to mention it in front of anyone, no matter what, so here maybe, you should try and forgive yourself for doing such a stupid thing, but to answer the question, yes, I would definitely forgive that person, but I would learn not to say anything sensitive in front of that person anymore.

Danny: All right, I agree this is not a big deal, so let’s move on to a more serious one. Your best friend engaged in a romantic relationship with a girl you were fond of, and he didn’t tell you anything about it, but you found that out by chance. Would you forgive him?

Ben: Well, this is definitely more serious than the first example, but I would still be able to forgive him if he knows that I gave up trying to build up a relationship with that girl, but I would still be hurt that he didn’t tell me about it. I might understand that he didn’t do it because he was kind of afraid of my reaction, but it would be a lot easier if he told me first. But yeah, I guess if I knew he didn’t do that on purpose, I would forgive him.

Danny: What if he did it on purpose?

Ben: Well, I guess, that would ruin our friendship for sure, and it doesn’t matter if I forgave him or not, but he would not be important in my life any longer.

Danny: What if it were just one mistake, and we all make mistakes. What if he comes to you, even later, admitting his mistake and seeking your forgiveness telling you that he is willing to stop seeing this girl if that’s what it takes you to forgive him.

Ben: In this case, I would forgive him, but again, if he does that, what he did at first couldn’t have been on purpose. I mean it’s complicated. What if he did in on purpose, and he’s just lying to me about it. I would never ask him to stop seeing the girl as a condition for my forgiveness, but at the same time, I would always be hurt when I see them together, especially, if that girl meant a lot to me. I mean out of all the girls in the world, he chose this one.

Danny: But you and her would never work out, and it’s not like either of them cheated on you. You had no relationship with that girl, so maybe, they are a better fit that you would ever be.

Ben: Sure, but he should have come to me first and I would never stop in the way of his happiness.

Danny: Alright, so even though this is not a crime, you still find it difficult to forgive. And that is definitely one thing we will be talking more about in the episode, but now let me finish this first part with one last situation. A burglar broke into your home. You weren’t there. He was surprised at seeing one of your family members in there, and although it wasn’t his original intention, he killed this family member. The burglar was caught later, and you were told that if you forgave him publicly, he would receive a shorter sentence. You were also told that this was his first crime. Would you do it, would you forgive him?

Ben: Well, it depend on which family member he killed. But now on a more serious note. I don’t think I can forgive this person because he didn’t hurt only me. I mean whoever he killed, there are more people who are attached to the victim, and I can’t just forgive this person and hurt the other people I care about. He may not be a serious criminal, but coming inside a house with a weapon, you cannot just curse your luck. I understand that the burglar ruined his life as much as he ruined the life of the victim, but it was not like a bar fight or something. He came into the house on purpose; he had a weapon on him on purpose, and he killed on purpose. I don’t think I can forgive him, no.

Danny: So, forgiveness is already getting complicated. It’s easy to talk about it but it’s a whole different thing practicing it. By the way, has any of these things I mentioned earlier happened to you.

Ben: Well, of course a colleague using my own words to further their own interests happened like a billion times, but that’s just business, and it’s not a big deal. And thankfully, I never had to deal with the last situation, but I had to deal with being cheated before. I’ll be honest with you and I don’t want to get into details about that, but I will have to say that one of the two parties that cheated was my own best friend, and I would be lying to you if I said that I ever forgave him. It’s kind of strange that I forgot about both of them and now they mean nothing to me, but I never forgave him, so yeah, maybe forgiveness is not that easy after all.

Danny: Well, I’m sorry to hear about that, and I would not try to pry into your personal life, but this one is tough for sure. We will talk later in the episode about why forgiveness in tough situations like this one can be a key to live a healthy life, but now I will have to say that what we talked about so far was more or less kind of an introduction to our discussion today. Next, we’re going to talk about the top reasons that can stop people from forgiving others, so don’t go anywhere. I’ll be right back.

Reasons Why People Don’t Forgive

Danny: So, we’re back to talk about the top reasons why people don’t forgive. Ben, what strikes you as the top reason why people don’t forgive other people?

Ben: Well, there are many reasons why you wouldn’t forgive other people when they hurt you, and of course it all depends on how big the offense is, but what I think is the most common reason why people don’t forgive each other is the thought that they think the other person does not deserve their forgiveness. I keep hearing that all the time. “I’m not gonna forgive him or her because they don’t deserve it.”

Danny: Well, that can easily be right, and yes, these people may not deserve our forgiveness, but we definitely do. At some point, we will realize that we forgive people for our own sakes, not for them, but that brings me to one of the top reasons why people don’t forgive each other, and it’s one of the hidden reasons as well. People simply don’t know how to forgive each other, or in other words, they don’t know what forgiving other people entails. I mean, you do something wrong to me, and I want to forgive you, but what does that mean? Does that mean that I should welcome you again in my life? Does that mean that you should get away with what you did without any consequences or punishment ism it’s a crime or something. What does it really mean to forgive? What do you think, Ben.

Ben: Well, this is a tough one. And again, there are a lot of things to consider. Who this person is, what he or she means to you, how big the offense is, does that offense affect you only or other people as well. Because let’s say that someone set fire to a parking lot and many cars were destroyed in the process. You can’t just forgive this person. You may be able to do that. You may be able to forgive what this person did to your own car, but what about other people’s cars. You can’t forgive that person for doing that. It’s not your decision to make.

Danny: So, I believe we can safely say that forgiveness is strictly personal. You can’t forgive anyone for anything on behalf of other people.

Ben: Yes, but that complicates things even more. How can you forgive a murderer for example? Even if you were the only person related to the victim? Can you really forgive this person on behalf of the victim? Would the victim ever forgive their murderer? Can you make that decision on behalf of them? 

Danny: And to complicate things even more. What if you decide to forgive someone and letting them get away with what they did, and they go on and do the same bad thing to other people who are not willing to forgive such offenses. Is it within your right to do so?

Ben: Yeah, that also, and that’s why when someone commits a crime, especially serious crimes, they go to trial and face serious jail time, even if the victim’s family forgive them. Societies have rights as well.

Danny: Well, exactly, let’s come back to what I introduced as one of the top reasons why people don’t forgive each other. Because they don’t know what forgiveness really means. If you forgive someone, that’s completely a personal thing you do for your own sake, for your own peace, but that never means that this person should get away with what he or she did, and that doesn’t mean that there must be reconciliation.

Ben: That’s right. Forgiving someone doesn’t mean you will trust them again. Forgiving someone is simple giving up your right to condemn that person, it means to stop talking about them, stop the hatred spiral that will destroy you before anyone else. 

Danny: I agree. And the funny thing is that it’s so tempting to keep talking ill about other people and how luring it is. You can find so many people ready and waiting to start criticizing someone, but you barely find anyone to share your conversation when you praise someone, especially if there’s no tangible benefit in sight.

Ben: Yeah. I believe that social media is not helping in this because they keep reminding you of what this person you hate did. If you just look at the bigger picture, when we talk about countries fighting, or in politics between rival parties.

Danny: How does that happen? How does social media polarizes people as you say?

Ben: I know this should be on its own episode, because there’s simply a lot to talk about, but the simple answer lies in the basic way how all social media networks work. Their one and only goal is to get more and more users and to get these users to stay tuned on their platforms for as long as possible. That’s how they increase the chance of a person clicking on an ad. They have many ways and complicated ways, I’ll have to say, to achieve this, but the most basic way is serving you what you like the most. So, if you watch a video created on a certain subject that favors a political party over another, chances are you will be watching a lot of similar videos to a point where you believe this is the only possible point of view and you will be deaf to all other voices. And when that happens in problems, offenses, crimes, or even wars, forgiveness becomes too difficult to even think about.

Danny: I see, well you are right about maybe dedicating an entire episode for this topic because there is definitely a lot to say, especially that I believe this giant leap in technology is great, but maybe, it’s happening a little bit too fast, so we as humans are not actually catching up. But we’ll keep that to another Discussions episode. Let’s stick to our topic for today and that’s forgiveness, and let’s continue talking about the top reasons why people don’t forgive each other. We mentioned two already. Maybe, the most important one is that people don’t know what forgiving each other means, and as Ben mentioned, people don’t forgive other people because they believe those don’t deserve their forgiveness. We also talked about how easy it is to find someone to talk about another person you hate, but very few to share your conversation about someone you love, so bitterness feels potent, especially in attracting a lot of people to you who are willing to hate other people with you for hours, but very few find the time to love someone with you. Anyway, of course we won’t have time to talk about all the possible reasons why people don’t forgive each other, but there’s always time to talk about that in more detail in the comments section on the website. In the description of the episode, you will find a link that will take you to the custom post I created for this episode on the website, where you can find the transcript of this episode, but it will also be a good place for you share in the discussion in the comments section. Next, we’re going to ask more questions related to forgiveness, so don’t go anywhere, we’ll be right back.

Key Forgiveness Questions

Danny: Welcome back to our discussion episode from English Plus Podcast and today we’re talking about forgiveness. I have a few questions for you, Ben and for our listeners, you know by now that you can share in our discussion on the website in the comment section of the post. So, my first question to you Ben is, why is forgiveness so important in life?

Ben: Well, at some point if you don’t forgive, your mind will explode. I mean all this hatred and bitterness will eat up your life and will leave you no energy, no time, nothing to rebuild your life from whatever devastation your offender caused you. And remember forgiveness doesn’t mean forgetting or excusing the harm done to you or making up with the person who caused the harm. Forgiveness is basically for you; it brings a kind of peace that helps you go on with life. So, I believe that’s why it’s crucial in life.

Danny: Well, Research has found that benefits of forgiveness for children, adolescents and adults include greater psychological and physical well-being, including decreases in anger, anxiety and depression. It also shows increases in hope, self-esteem, feelings of peace, improved relationships and academic achievements. All right, now for the second question, what do you think the hardest thing about forgiveness is?

Ben: I believe that hardest part is forgetting about what happened and going on with your life. It’s always easier said than done but forgetting is the key to have a chance of living a happy life. You know sometimes you feel guilty that you forgave someone for what they did, especially if the harm falls not only on you but on other people you love. You feel guilty that you let these people down or even yourself down by forgiving those who did you harm and this festers anger in your heart even more than before and kind of make you wish you never forgave that person in the first place. Sometimes, they may do something later on that makes you feel like a fool. Because it took you a great effort to forgive this person and he or she does something that feels as if they were teasing you, so you need to let go, to forget, to stop caring about what these people do or say to have a chance of going on with life no matter how big or small the offense is.

Danny: I wouldn’t dare say it’s easy, but I know it’s possible to forgive and forget. Well, now for our last question for this section: who do you think is the hardest person to forgive?

Ben: Well, this one is easy. Yourself. The hardest person to forgive is always yourself. And while you might have a chance of having a life if you can’t forgive some people and you can’t forget some offenses, you have absolutely zero chance of having a life if you can’t forgive yourself.

Danny: So forgiveness is not always about forgiving others; it’s also about forgiving yourself, and for this one, trust must be built again, there must be reconciliation, because you can’t run away from yourself. 

Ben: That’s right.

Danny: Well, we still have one last section in our episode today and in this section, we will discuss quickly some thoughts religions have on forgiveness and how plausible they are to our lives, that’s coming next. Don’t go anywhere, I’ll be right back.

Forgiveness According to Buddhism, Christianity and Hinduism

Danny: Welcome back to the final section of today’s discussion on Forgiveness. In this section, we will go over what some religions say about forgiveness and how that applies to our lives regardless of which religion you believe in or whether you believe in religions at all. Our motto in this podcast is to never stop learning and I can tell you that there is indeed a lot to learn from all religions around the world. There’s definitely a great amount of wisdom in those religions that kept people sticking to them all those years, and I always believe in having an open mind and listening to what other people say and think, and that can definitely lead to a better understanding of those peoples and we will find ourselves in a better position to forgive other people when we start to see the world from their own eyes. So, I will talk about forgiveness in Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism, Islam and Judaism in alphabetical order.

Ben: So, you’re trying to be as diplomatic as possible.

Danny: Well, you can say that, and because I have great respect to people’s beliefs no matter what they are, especially those who call for more love, acceptance and of course forgiveness. So let’s start with our very first religion and that is Buddhism.
In Buddhism, forgiveness is seen as a practice to prevent harmful emotions from causing havoc on one’s mental well-being. Buddhism recognizes that feelings of hatred and ill-will leave a lasting effect on our mind karma and instead encourages the cultivation of emotions which leave a wholesome effect. “In contemplating the law of karma, we realize that it is not a matter of seeking revenge but of practicing metta and forgiveness, for the victimizer is, truly, the most unfortunate of all. When resentments have already arisen, the Buddhist view is to calmly proceed to release them by going back to their roots. Buddhism centers on release from delusion and suffering through meditation and receiving insight into the nature of reality. Buddhism questions the reality of the passions that make forgiveness necessary as well as the reality of the objects of those passions. “If we haven’t forgiven, we keep creating an identity around our pain, and that is what is reborn. That is what suffers.”
Buddhism places much emphasis on the concepts of Mettā (loving kindness), karuna (compassion), mudita (sympathetic joy), and upekkhā (equanimity), as a means to avoiding resentments in the first place. These reflections are used to understand the context of suffering in the world, both our own and the suffering of others.
And I finish with a quote from the Dhammapada:
‘He abused me, he struck me, he overcame me, he robbed me’
— in those who harbor such thoughts hatred will never cease.
So, Ben what do you think? Does the idea of forgiveness in Buddhism make sense in our lives.

Ben: Well, I won’t claim that I know a lot about any religion, but it kind of makes sense to me to focus on your own wellbeing, and by harboring less and less of hatred and introducing more forgiveness in your life, you will have a chance at living a fuller life, a more peaceful life and you will be focusing on what you can change, and that is yourself, and who knows by doing that, you might be changing the entire world in the process, but dwelling on something bad that happened to you and you can’t go past that point is just as harmful as the offense itself, sometimes. So yeah, I see a lot of sense in that.

Danny: I agree, and now before I move on to talk about what Christianity says about forgiveness, I will have to say that it is shockingly similar what different religions think about forgiveness, yet we still see many peoples around the world fighting and killing in the names of those religions. I think this is something worth contemplating. Anyway, let’s move on and talk about what Christianity say about forgiveness.
According to traditional Christian teachings, the forgiveness of others is amongst the spiritual duties of the Christian believer. God is generally considered to be the original source of all forgiveness, which is made possible through the suffering and sacrifice of Jesus, and is freely available to the repentant believer. As a response to God’s forgiveness, the Christian believer is in turn expected to learn how to forgive others; some would teach that the forgiveness of others is a necessary part of receiving forgiveness themselves. In fact, at the end of the Lord’s Prayer, Jesus says that unless we forgive we won’t be forgiven.
The person who is forgiven is not necessarily released from any obligation to make material or financial amends. By forgiving someone the person doing the forgiving becomes free.
And let me finish this brief account of forgiveness according to Christianity by quoting a couple of verses from the Bible:
“Peter came to Jesus and asked, ‘Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Up to seven times?’ Jesus answered, ‘I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times (or seventy times seven).'” (Matthew 18:34-35)
And from (Mark 11:25) “And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive him, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins.”
So, what do you think about that Ben?

Ben: I really like the idea about that by forgiving someone the person doing the forgiving becomes free. Maybe, this is the single most important reason why we should start forgiving each other. It might sound like a selfish reason, but so what. When you forgive others, you free yourself from all the agony that hatred and vengeful thoughts bring along your life.

Danny: And we can already see a lot of similar goals for forgiveness in both religions we have discussed so far, and believe me, we will see the same in the other religions we will talk about.

Ben: Yeah, unfortunately we are very quick to realize the differences we have with other people, when most of the time, we have a lot more similarities than differences, but focusing on differences is just like hatred. It feels good at first, it feels strong, and it incentivizes our primitive tribal feelings, and we as humans are not famous for being patient because hatred is devastating in the long run, while love and forgiveness will help us live a happy life, but maybe not immediately.

Danny: Well said. Well, that brings me to the next religion on our short alphabetical ordered list and that is Hinduism.
The concept of performing atonement from one’s wrongdoing and asking for forgiveness is very much a part of the practice of Hinduism. (Prayaschitta — Sanskrit: Penance) is related to the law of Karma. Karma is a sum of all that an individual has done, is currently doing and will do. The effects of those deeds and these deeds actively create present and future experiences, thus making one responsible for one’s own life, and the pain in others.
And I will quote an inspirational part from the Mahabharata that kind of sums up how Hindus believe forgiveness is a great power.
Addressing Dhritarashtra, Vidura said: “There is one only defect in forgiving persons, and not another; that defect is that people take a forgiving person to be weak. That defect, however, should not be taken into consideration, for forgiveness is a great power. Forgiveness is a virtue of the weak, and an ornament of the strong. Forgiveness subdues (all) in this world; what is there that forgiveness cannot achieve? What can a wicked person do unto him who carries the saber of forgiveness in his hand? Fire falling on the grassless ground is extinguished of itself. And unforgiving individual defiles himself with many enormities. Righteousness is the one highest good; and forgiveness is the one supreme peace; knowledge is one supreme contentment; and benevolence, one sole happiness.”
(From the Mahabharata, Udyoga Parva Section XXXIII).
So, what do you think about that, Ben?

Ben: Well, I really loved the idea of how forgiveness is a great power, and it’s true that one of the biggest obstacles standing in the way of people starting to forgive one another is that people take a forgiving person to be weak, when forgiveness is an act of strength, and I believe people care too much about what other people think. If you just care about what you think, life will be a lot easier. What if I thought you were weak because you forgave me. As long as you know that you’re strong, that shouldn’t matter at all. But it takes a lot of time and wisdom for people to start caring only about what they think of themselves and not about what society thinks.

Danny: I agree. And just to add another thing, I really loved the image of the saber of forgiveness and how strong it is in the face of wicked people. There will always be good and bad people in this world, but what you and I are going to do about that and which side we choose is what really matters. Well, that leaves us with two more religions to talk about and these are Islam and Judaism. That’s coming next, so don’t go anywhere, I’ll be right back.

Forgiveness According to Islam and Judaism

Danny: Welcome back to our discussion about forgiveness and we will talk now about forgiveness according to Islam.
The word Islam is derived from the Semetic word: slm, meaning peace. Clearly forgiveness is a prerequisite for any true or genuine peace. Islam teaches that God (Allah in Arabic) is ‘the most forgiving’, and is the original source of all forgiveness. Forgiveness often requires the repentance of those being forgiven. Depending on the type of wrong committed, forgiveness can come either directly from Allah, or from one’s fellow man. In the case of divine forgiveness, the asking for divine forgiveness via repentance is important. In the case of human forgiveness, it is important to both forgive, and to be forgiven.
Whenever possible, the Qur’an makes it clear that it is better to forgive another than to attack another. The Qur’an describes the believers (Muslims) as those who, They avoid gross sins and vice, and when angered they forgive. (Qur’an 42:37) and says that Although the just requital for an injustice is an equivalent retribution, those who pardon and maintain righteousness are rewarded by GOD. He does not love the unjust. (Qur’an 42:40).
According to Islam, to receive forgiveness from God there are three requirements:
Recognizing the offense itself and its admission before God.
Making a commitment not to repeat the offense.
Asking for forgiveness from God.
If the offense was committed against another human being, or against society, a fourth condition is added, and that is:
Doing whatever needs to be done to rectify the offense (within reason) and asking pardon of the offended party.
So, what do you think about that Ben?

Ben: Well, I’ll have to say that most people don’t see this forgiving side of Islam and all they see is what they get to see on television and again social media. What I really liked about this is how practical it is and how it clearly states that it is not enough to ask for forgiveness, but you also have to make amends and do whatever it takes within reason to rectify the offense and then ask pardon of the offended party.

Danny: That’s right. Well, again, I will have to highlight the fact that there are indeed a lot of similarities among religions than we know, and the importance of forgiveness is indeed one of them. And now for the last religion for today’s episode, let’s try to understand forgiveness according to Judaism.
In Judaism, if a person harms one, but then sincerely and honestly apologizes to the wronged individual and tries to rectify the wrong, the wronged individual is religiously required to grant forgiveness:
“It is forbidden to be obdurate and not allow yourself to be appeased. On the contrary, one should be easily pacified and find it difficult to become angry. When asked by an offender for forgiveness, one should forgive with a sincere mind and a willing spirit. . . forgiveness is natural to the seed of Israel.” (Mishneh Torah, Teshuvah 2:10)
But if the wrongdoer does not apologize, there is no religious obligation to grant forgiveness. This is because Judaism is focused on the personal responsibility of the wrongdoer. It is the wrongdoer’s responsibility to recognize their wrongdoing and to seek forgiveness from those who have been harmed.
Additionally, in Judaism, a person must apologize to those he has harmed in order to be entitled to forgiveness. This means that, unlike in Christianity, in Judaism a person cannot obtain forgiveness from God for wrongs the person has done to other people. A person can only obtain forgiveness from God for wrongs done to God. For instance, should person A assault person B, person A would have to obtain forgiveness from both person B (for the assault) and God (for breaking God’s law against assault). This is similar to how the criminal justice system in many countries works; in America, for example, an assault is considered both an offense against the government (leading to criminal prosecution) and an offense against the individual (leading to possible tort damages claims). Sir Jonathan Sacks, Chief Rabbi of the United Hebrew Congregations of the Commonwealth summed this concept up as follows: “it is not that God forgives, while human beings do not. To the contrary, we believe that just as only God can forgive sins against God, so only human beings can forgive sins against human beings.”
A Jew may, however, forgive if they choose even if the offender has not apologized:
If one who has been wronged by another does not wish to rebuke or speak to the offender — because the offender is simple or confused — then if he sincerely forgives him, neither bearing him ill-will nor administering a reprimand, he acts according to the standard of the pious. (Deot 6:9)
Jews observe a Day of Atonement Yom Kippur on the day before God makes decisions regarding what will happen during the coming year. Just prior to Yom Kippur, Jews will ask forgiveness of those they have wronged during the prior year (if they have not already done so). During Yom Kippur itself, Jews fast and pray for God’s forgiveness for the transgressions they have made against God in the prior year. Sincere repentance is required, and once again, God can only forgive one for the sins one has committed against God; this is why it is necessary for Jews also to seek the forgiveness of those people who they have wronged.
Heinrich Heine, a famous Jewish writer, used to say: “Dieu me pardonnera; c’est son metier.” (God will forgive me; that’s his job.) This is of course connected with the famous saying: “Tout comprendre, c’est tout pardonner.” (To understand everything is to forgive everything.) God understands everyone and everything. Therefore, he forgives everything and everyone.
Well, what do you think about that, Ben?

Ben: Well, I truly respect the idea of stressing the importance of seeking forgiveness directly from those who you have offended and not just depending on the fact that God will forgive you later. This is just and it is kind of more democratic from God’s part.

Danny: I agree. Well, can you imagine if people followed any of these doctrines, how life would be a lot better?

Ben: Yeah. Unfortunately, the answers we seek are already there in front of us and they are as clear as the sun, but we sometimes choose to turn a blind eye or a deaf ear to truth, to what makes sense.

Danny: Ain’t that our main problem as species? Well, I hope we found some attentive ears today, and I hope that we left our listeners with some rich food for thought. Thank you, Ben, for joining me in this episode, and thank you for sharing your thoughts with us.

Ben: It’s a pleasure, Danny. Thank you.

Danny: Well, that brings me to the end of our episode today. Remember that you can join in the discussion on the website. All you have to do is take the link you can find in the transcript and head to my website englishpluspodcast.com and leave your comments in the comment section of the post and I will respond as soon as I can. That will be everything for today’s episode. I hope you enjoyed your time listening to Ben and I and I hope you finished the episode a little wiser. May we all have the power to forgive when we can. Thank you very much for listening to another episode from English Plus Podcast. This is your host, Danny. I will see you next time.

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